Earlier this month, Khawaja—a onetime air force officer and agent in Pakistan’s powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI)—was questioned by police after a local newspaper identified him as one of Pearl’s contacts. Khawaja was never charged, and Gilani was released from custody after police decided he had no role in The Wall Street Journal reporter’s disappearance and subsequent murder.

While Khawaja no longer appears to be under any suspicion, his political views provide a stark insight into the difficulties facing President Pervez Musharraf as the Pakistani leader tries to crack down on extremists inside his country. Just how many Pakistanis share Khawaja’s Islamist views probably will not become clear before the country goes to the polls to elect a prime minister this fall. But tensions are running high: on Tuesday night, gunmen believed to belong to a recently outlawed Muslim group killed at least 11 people in a Rawalpindi mosque. While Musharraf has pledged to steer the nation on a faithful yet progressive path, those like Khawaja deride Musharraf as an American puppet.

Khawaja spoke recently with NEWSWEEK’s Gretel C. Kovach from his home in Islamabad about the Pakistani Islamist perspective on Osama bin Laden, terrorism and U.S.-Pakistani relations. Excerpts:

NEWSWEEK: Why are so many Pakistanis resentful of the United States, willing even to go into Afghanistan and fight against Americans?

Khalid Khawaja: It’s not only Pakistanis. It is really Muslims all over the world. You know how people felt after the 11th of September? They were angry, they wanted to take revenge. We fully appreciate the agony of September 11. It was absolutely the most horrible incident, simply because thousands of innocent people were killed. But those killed in Afghanistan were not fighting against America, they were innocent people who were murdered just like the people in the World Trade Center. We are exactly like the Americans. We, too, cannot stand still when so many innocent brothers and sisters were killed. So for me, George W. Bush is a terrorist … What America has done is that they have provided an excuse to the terrorists. The problems are just beginning.

Do you think suicide attacks are legitimate within Islam?

It’s difficult to say exactly yes or no to this question, but in any case killing an innocent person is not permitted. The Qur’an says very clearly that if you kill one innocent person it is as if you have killed the whole [of] humanity. But the problem is also [that] in our ranks there are many people who do not [truly] know Islam….

Until the time Americans believe that others are also equal human beings, this problem will never be sorted out. Hatred will remain against America. And it is increasing, to a very great degree.

Will the tension ease if America aids Afghanistan and Pakistan?

They [Americans] think that by this they will win people over. Like when they used to throw those packets of food [into Afghanistan]. That is insulting … Afghanistan [under the Taliban] was not an ideal state, but it was trying. The Taliban became a little orthodox. These were illiterate people who were not very much educated. But there was no stealing, women’s honor was preserved, opium was banned, there was no wine—all kinds of corruption were over. Now the people are crying because everyday there are robberies and there is no peace. The real enemies of America are not terrorists, but injustice, discrimination, ignorance and arrogance.

Are closer relations with the United States going to benefit Pakistan in the long run?

As a Muslim I really don’t believe in land barriers. What does it mean to say you love Pakistan, or you love America? What is Pakistan? Flowers, stone, earth? Pakistan is nothing. It is in fact the people and the qualities of life, like freedom, that you love. One must love all people, not only the people from one country. For me, nationalism is the basic problem, because God is the only superpower … What is Islam? I can sum it up in two words: human consideration. Anything else is just propaganda.

Can Christians and Muslims live together peacefully?

We are really not so different from each other, Muslims and Christians. We both have the Ten Commandments. We both are People of the Book. If Americans consider others to be good human beings like they are, and love them and feel for their miseries, they will never be terrorized by anybody. This is the main problem—both sides trying to justify their fight against terrorism.

Can secular Pakistanis live peacefully with Muslims?

Sure. Why not? You cannot force someone to be a Muslim, you can only ask them to read the Qur’an and decide for themselves. You Western people do not understand our religion. There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. You are either a Muslim or you are a hypocrite or you are an infidel. I was not always a Muslim. In fact, when I was a young officer in the Pakistani Air Force, I was as “modern” as any American. I was the one who used to make fun of the people who would go to the mosque. I used to lie. I used to drink alcohol. And it was very difficult to change … It was a long journey, but slowly and gradually all my questions about life were answered, not 99 percent, 100 percent.

What is your view on President Pervez Musharraf?

I cannot find almost anyone who is happy with Musharraf. Our government is a slave government and we are the puppets of the United States. Musharraf was clearly told, “We will send you to the Stone Age,” and he is not a man with real faith and conviction. From his heart I am sure he hates America. Because Musharraf was happy with the Taliban. The Taliban was with our government, and now [the Afghan interim] government is with India. We have lost, lost, lost. We [in Pakistan] are the biggest losers in all this game … We have been helpful in slaughtering our own brothers and sisters, and we will be judged for that.

The Pakistani government dismissed you from the Air Force and ISI in the ’80s for criticizing your superiors’ lack of piety. And you were imprisoned for three months in 1995 for campaigning against former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. Aren’t you afraid you will cause more trouble for yourself by speaking out in this way?

After I was stationed in Saudi Arabia in the Air Force back in the ’80s, that was when I decided I could no longer tolerate hypocrisy. When I was fighting in the jihad against the Soviets [in Afghanistan], and when I was imprisoned for my involvement in local politics, those were the best times of my life. God taught me many things during that time. I felt so strong. The mosquitoes would not even bite me.

What do you think of Osama bin Laden?

In the media they have made him into a monster. The whole world is scared of him now, when even if Osama tries his best he cannot even scare my youngest son. I had many differences of opinion with him, but still I would say that Osama bin Laden is a man like an angel. If there was an election today in any number of Muslim countries, Osama would win.

How did you meet bin Laden?

When I went to Afghanistan to fight against the Soviet occupation, I became very close with Dr. Abdullah Azzam [a prominent Palestinian mujahedin leader later killed in battle], and one day when we were meeting, a [young man] came and sat down close to us. Later he was introduced to me as “Abdullah.” But slowly I realized that he was the Saudi Osama bin Laden, and then Azzam introduced us properly. I worked very closely with Osama in those years, and we all had great respect for him. No one in this world has sacrificed as much as Osama. I know quite a few people who left him because of their differences, yet they speak very highly of him.

Why do you respect someone whom so many people consider a terrorist?

I ask your media to find at least two people who have lived with him and would tell me Osama is a bad person. I have had many differences with him. For example, he would revolve the total religion around jihad. I would basically agree that jihad is one of the most important factors in our religion, but you cannot totally revolve around it. My way of living was a little different, but still I could find him mostly better than me in many respects. We love him because of his unique sense of sacrifice. His brothers were living in a palace like the king of Saudi Arabia. But Osama would live in small flats, sometimes even in a trench.

You don’t believe he made that videotape accepting responsibility for the September 11 attacks?

That videotape was controversial. We used to tell Osama you cannot hide yourself because one thing, you are tall, and another thing, you are thin. And in that videotape he is not thin. And if you look at the other three [videotaped bin Laden statements] you see they are a similar man, this man seems to be a different man.

You think it was someone pretending to be bin Laden?

I can’t be sure.

Would the bin Laden that you know have said those things and planned the September 11 attacks?

Osama had a very high quality of sacrifice, but you could not call him a very intelligent person, you could not grade him a genius. He was also shy by nature. From that kind of a man, this kind of planning is just not possible.

What about his Egyptian lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri?

Now him, probably he is someone who could plan something like that. But when I show [journalists] the places in Afghanistan they say were terrorist training academies, I start laughing. I ask your Pentagon to just come and stay here, let them try to plan anything. Afghanistan is the worst place for that. There are no facilities there at all, no telephones, no Internet. There is almost nothing over there. Those were military camps [for troops battling the Northern Alliance], not terrorist training camps. Afghanistan was not a place to plan any sophisticated terrorist attack. That could be done in Pakistan, in Europe, in America itself. But Afghanistan?

What about the 1996 fatwa and declarations signed by bin Laden to kill Americans wherever they may be?

Osama has no right to give a fatwa in Islam. He doesn’t have that degree. There was a fatwa by one Muslim scholar against the British. Osama quoted that fatwa [against the British] to somebody else, and somehow or other that fatwa was labeled onto him. It was a misunderstanding.

Do you think Osama bin Laden is still alive?

I am sure.

When was the last time you saw Osama bin Laden?

Ha, this is an interesting question. Let’s skip that.